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A new wrinkle in the "Cash for Clunkers" program

By Diana Fairbanks
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 1:54 p.m.

Read more: Local, Economy, Business, Cash for Clunkers, Bill Marsh, Diana Fairbanks, Fact Finder, Fact Finder

Cash for Clunkers has proven to be a wildly successful way of getting people to trade in their old cars for more fuel efficient ones. In fact, the government has pumped another two billion dollars into it to keep it going.

But what happens now with all of those clunkers?

They were supposed to be destroyed.

So why are dozens of them lining the back lots at one area dealership?

The answer is tonight's Fact Finder Report.

New cars have been flying off of these lots as more and more drivers take the government up on its cash incentive to replace gas guzzlers with more fuel efficient vehicles.

Dan O'Connor, General Sales Manager for Bill Marsh Auto Group says, "It's been a win win win really for the environment, the customer and us."

But while those lots are emptying out, these are filling up. Rows of dozens of clunkers behind Bill Marsh Price Point in Traverse City.

O'Connor says "we're trying to hide them back here but as the amount of them continues to grow you can see there's a lot of them back here."

80 clunkers and counting. Everything from past prime pick ups to jade green jaguars.

As part of the program these cars must be made undrivable.

So why are so many clunkers parked here instead of put out of service?

O'Connor says "really they're just sitting there waiting for the go-ahead from the government to start disabling them."

Call it the dealer's cash for clunkers insurance plan. The government said dealers could wait to disable the clunker until they received government reimbursement.

O'Connor says, "We've submitted 80 deals. We've not been funded on any but they have been communicating on some that had some errors in them and we've resubmitted them so we're still on hold right now."

And since Bill Marsh hasn't been reimbursed yet, the clunkers are stuck in back lot limbo.

O'Connor says, "We knew going into this partnership with the government there might be some hiccoughs. We still have 100% faith that we're going to get paid for all of them. We haven't even thought about a contingency plan if something goes wrong."

So what is the plan for these clunkers once the government pays up? Smash 'em.

Bill Marsh has contracted with a local metal company. That company will pay Bill Marsh $50 per car, what the government allows, and then the metal company will smash them and get the scrap metal value.

Through the rules of program, the dealer must disable the engine, but other things like fenders and wheels could be sold as parts.

O'Connor says, "We just chose to go with a company that is not going to do that. They're just going to smash them and use the metal."

Diana asks, "As a car guy, does it hurt you a little bit?" O'Connor replies, "it does! It goes against everything I've ever been taught in the car business. I'm going to euthanize these cars and I'm used to fixing these cars so it's different."

So what do you think? What should be done with the clunkers? Leave your comments below.

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Cash for Clunkers

Posted by Gary Bates, Ossineke,MI - Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 9:32 p.m.

Here we go again america!!!
What is a clunker. My understanding of the program was to eliminate the gas hogs, save energy resources. So we trade in our clunker that gets 14/25 mpg for a brand new clunker that gets 14/25 mpg. Now that makes good government sense. I drive a 91 ford f-150 that gets 17/21 mpg. A 2009 F-150 gets 14/18 mpg, 2009 Silverado gets 13/18 mpg and the 2009 Caravan gets 16/25 mpg. So should I trade my old clunker or should I trade my new clunker? Food for Thought

Cash for Clunkers program Blows!

Posted by sarah freeman, traverse city MI - Monday, August 31, 2009 at 10:26 a.m.

I am twenty three years old. My husband and i are just starting out and boy is it hard! We just bought our house, and we both work very hard to make ends meet. My blazer I was driving recently blew up, now i am looking for a car to drive (used). Not having any luck because many of the cars i would have considered great are being destroyed by the cash for clunkers program. I know i cant afford to buy a new car, because thats a payment. I am pretty down, but i keep my chin up because there are others way less fortunate than i, that i am sure feel the same way about this program.

Recycling clunkers??

Posted by Josh King, Traverse City - Thursday, August 20, 2009 at 11:23 p.m.

I wonder just how much the govt. is getting in return for the recycling of the clunkers. The thing that makes me mad the most is that the clunkers cannot be reused so what about the body parts and panels? What about the people, like myeslf, that cannot afford to go out and purchase a new vehicle? It would be nice so buy a couple of those used parts to throw on my own clunker that still runs good and is reliable!!

clunkers for workers

Posted by Nancy Wright, Northern Michigan - Thursday, August 20, 2009 at 2:40 p.m.

You wanted us to respond regarding the "Cash for Clunkers" program as to how we felt about the cars being demolished. I am totally disgusted about this decision the government made. A lot of the "clunkers" would be good cars for teens and also the cars could be used for the "Worker on Wheels" programs at Goodwill. They are always looking for these type of cars. Our local Goodwill has this program and I am sure others do too. Another stupid,
thoughtless decision - typical with this government!

mr

Posted by Mike Mack, alpena - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 10:08 p.m.

The governmentt should be donating theese car to oganizations like Salvation Army. They have programs in place to find indaviduals who are in need of vehicles in order to get to work or to find a job. This would in turn add to the economy and the cycle could continue. Economic Growth, wasn't this what this supposed to be about in the first place, or are WE just funding another auto industry bailout!!!

Cash for Clunkers

Posted by Juliah Glew, Lake Ann - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 3:46 p.m.

I think it is totally un-realistic that the goverment isn't giving these cars to the people that cannot afford brand new cars. It would be great if the car dealerships would try to sell the ones in good shape to low income families.Kind of like Goodwill when people dont need their clothes anymore someone else can use them.

unfair

Posted by a viewer, northern michigan - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 1:47 p.m.

think it's great that there's a program to help get older cars off the road, but for those of us who can't afford to take part in this plan it seems unfair to just have the cars and trucks crushed. I have an olds that isn't manufactured any longer and have a hard time finding parts so I rely on junk yards for economic reasons as well as the need for parts no longer made. I think the cars and trucks should be disabled but there are people that need to buy used parts so send the clunkers to a junk yard to be recycled.

Typical liberal program

Posted by Mike D, TC - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 12:34 p.m.

Short sighted with no reguard to "real effects". Costing the tax payers money for what? So a few dealers can sell some foreign cars, or a few people get "new" vehicles they can't afford, or better fuel economy? It's hurting the used car market, and those that own business's in that field. It's hurting people that may recieve a "good" used vehicle from a non-profit organization, that are now not recieving as many donations. It may not even acually help the fuel consumption in this country. Now that these folks are getting "better" fuel mileage they probably will start driving more, thus still burning extra gas. See, stupid, stupid program!! Typical

recycle

Posted by norman graham, down state - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 10:57 a.m.

we have a local company here that's removing parts for sale to fix other vehicles, unfortunatley they make the dealers pour a product called liquid glass that destroys the engine, thats how they "disable" them. To me it would make more sense to just remove the title so it could not be sold as a whole car again, why do we pay to have vehicles registered and track able in case of theft if we don't use that same system to flag the vin as undrivable? many excellent parts can be used to repair other vehicles,

help those who need it

Posted by kristina c., interlochen - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 10:42 a.m.

I think that the "clunkers" should be able to be sold to low income individuals for the price that the salvage yards are gonna pay-what was it $50.00?! There are more people out there that can not afford a new car than there are people who can!!!!!!

help those who need it

Posted by kristina c., interlochen - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 10:42 a.m.

I think that the "clunkers" should be able to be sold to low income individuals for the price that the salvage yards are gonna pay-what was it $50.00?! There are more people out there that can not afford a new car than there are people who can!!!!!!

Poverty Reduction Initiative - For The Needy

Posted by Tim Korth, TC - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 9:39 a.m.

I am a Navigator for PRI and working with a homeless
person who lost his Motor Home to a fire. He has nothing for shelter nor transportation to get a job. These "Clunkers" could be put to good use helping such people. I agree with other comments trying to put some of the vehicles in the hands of needy. Some rules are for bending in these cases.

help the ones that need it

Posted by some one in mich a r, mi - Wednesday, August 19, 2009 at 7:48 a.m.

we are one of the lowincome and i need a car to get to the dr, for my heart but can we get help no because we are lowincome. this was not for yhe ones that need help.

Second Chance

Posted by Rose Osborn, Bear Lake - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 11:59 p.m.

The gov needs to let the car dealers sell the cars to people who can prove they are low income for the price they would get for scrapping them out. Maybe next year the people would be able to trade them for something better. Selling a car like one of the good cunkers to someone who can't afford a new car, might boost their self esteem and help them to get to work or find jobs. Lets give this a try, what's anybody got lose.

cash for clunkers

Posted by paul tunison, petoskey - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 11:28 p.m.

I think the cars should go to charities and if that's not allowed every individual should strip them down to the bare bones themselves sell whatever they can and donate that to a good cause; as long as it drives in it doesn't matter what kind of shape it's in from what I understand.Perhaps the tires should be donated to those places that make play ground equipment,and what would really be nice is if you could get a free part or two from a cluncker if you were layed off.Something productive should be done with these parts!

Clunkers??

Posted by Anon Anon, TC - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 8:45 p.m.

OK I know everyone wants to donate these "clunkers" to charity. Have you thought about what the whole purpose of this program is? It is to get inefficient vehicles off the road.

If you donate a vehicle that gets 10 to 20 mpg, is that really helping out the low income people who need a vehicle? They would spend more in gas than they do on BATA or other modes of transportation. Also, on many of these clunkers, the insurance premiums would be way too expensive for low income people to afford.

Disappointed

Posted by Kim R, Kingsley - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 8:40 p.m.

I am disappointed that Bill Marsh has opted to use a company that is not going to remove salvageable parts. This is such a waste of a vehicle.

I am also disappointed that there are stipulations, such as you must have proof that the vehicle has been insured for a year or more. I was in an accident last year and had to purchase a different vehicle. I got a Ford Explorer, I do love the vehicle, but due to an unfortunate circumstance, I cannot take advantage of this as it has only been nine months since my accident. My Explorer needs replacement parts, but it doesn't appear that there will be any available.

Clunkers are the only cars for some

Posted by John Wells, Lewiston - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 7:55 p.m.

Not everyone can go out and buy a new car just because they want better MPG's. This program is taking cars away from people who cant buy a new car.I have had several cars in my life time and not one was new. So low income people go with out, repair shops go with out, and even parts makers lose out,Thats right.. fewer older cars needing parts means fewer parts being made. How will this help Miching autparts workers?? And yes someone somewhere will find a way to get some of these cars back on the road and make a buck at the same time.But it ok as long as we bail out big dealerships.Some would even say this is double diping as we already bailed out the auto makers once.

cash for clunkers

Posted by Stephanie Giovannetti, Petoskey, MI - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 7:28 p.m.

One of the main reasons i am not trading in my car for this program is because they junk them. Sure i would love to have a nice fuel efficient car but mine still has plenty of life left in it. Maybe if they were able to donate them instead, i would trade it in.

Clunkers and fraud

Posted by Al McMullen, Cheboygan - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 6:19 p.m.

It looks like this administration can't get anything strait. Many of these clunkers are owned by people in the lower income bracket and now they uy a new car and get saddled with payments they can't afford. So will this govt bail them out when they can't make their payments. I'll bet a lot of these clunkers end up back on the road when greedy individuals figure out a way to do it. And we want to have this administration mess with our health insurance?? Good bye America.

What about the low income??

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous, Petoskey - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 6:17 p.m.

Alot of these cars are still in good condition. There are alot of low income people, especially during these hard economic times, that could get some use out of these cars. It is a shame that these cars would be destroyed when there are people that could use one. If a car is a real "clunker" then it should be destroyed but if it is still in good working order then it should be donated to local charities, to be distributed to people in need. The government is leaving alot of low income out of the equation here.

cash for clunkers

Posted by Lisa Whitten, Wolverine - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 6:14 p.m.

I think they should part out the cars including the engine and donate the ones that are still in great shape. There are alot of needy people out there and a lot of people who can't afford to cash in their vehicles. So why not help everyone with this cash for clunkers program?

clunkers for kids

Posted by keith yorks, evart, mi - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 6:14 p.m.

the dealerships should be able to sell them to kids who need cars for collage use, and or people who need cars that are on low income that can not afford new cars. put the cars up for auction.

Clunkers

Posted by B D, Michigan - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 5:56 p.m.

You know what? I can't afford one of these new cars (even if I had a car to trade in) and so if I find a car that is considered a "clunker" then I'm going to buy it.

What About Car Repair Shops?

Posted by Terri Strieter, Traverse City - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 4:43 p.m.

OK so cash for clunkers is helping the environment and the auto dealerships BUT by taking the "clunkers" out of commission you are taking income away from the numerous repair shops. Help one, hurt another? Someone didn't think this one too far ahead!!

Clunkers-Not really

Posted by Michele Sheeley, TC - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.

Some of these "clunkers" are not really clunkers (unable to drive cars). Some of these are still very usuable and could be used or donated to local charities for single moms, low income families that do need to get to work. What a waste!

Clunkers fill Lots

Posted by Bill Perault, Cheboygan - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 3:48 p.m.

I think the cars should be able to be dismantled, including the engines to re-sell for parts to owners who have not traded their clunkers in. At least that would save them from being burdened from not finding parts. Some people have the credit to be able to buy the new cars or newer used cars but then again. Part of the populous can not. Not all the people of our country will be able to. There are only so many jobs available for a certain few. So lets not forget the impoverished, they deserve the ability of commute as well.

Donate to charity

Posted by Marc Ryan, Lake Ann Area - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 3:37 p.m.

From what I understand some of these cars are in great shape and get not bad gas mileage so why dint they donate them to Charity, a church or a person that needs a car to get back and forth to where ever, its a shame there just trashing them

homemaker

Posted by karen jackson, west branch - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 3:22 p.m.

The whole purpose of the "cash for clunkers" program is to get gas guzzlers and cars with polutents that are exposed into the air, off the road. Those old care SHOULD be destroyed,metal & iron be melted down for other things.

sickening

Posted by mike nicholls, lake ann - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 2:36 p.m.

The notion that the government has bastardized the entire low-end used car market is sickening. A temporary quick fix is plainly not the answer. Destroying otherwise useable vehicles which would have been available for lower income families or young people just starting out is stupid. Lots of luck finding a $2500.00 car for your teenager.

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